Curse

generik · Aug 13, 2005, 09:53 AM // 09:53

I just got a character ran today, and the strange thing is, for 70AL, my lvl 10 character is taking 30-50 damage from a stone submit gnasher just "attacking" me with his wand!

I'm pretty sure that's not normal... so I guess they must have closed that long time exploit once and for all! Good riddance to all that running spam I guess.

wheel · Aug 13, 2005, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

I just got a character ran today, and the strange thing is, for 70AL, my lvl 10 character is taking 30-50 damage from a stone submit gnasher just "attacking" me with his wand!

I'm pretty sure that's not normal... so I guess they must have closed that long time exploit once and for all! Good riddance to all that running spam I guess.

there's no way to tell because you didn't tell us what level the stone summit that were doing that damage were. if you knew the guidl wars damage equation, you'd know that level has a huge factor in how much damage you receive.

generik · Aug 13, 2005, 10:18 AM // 10:18

I'll try to wear that same armor and see how much those minotaurs do to my character

Edit: lvl 10 minos in anvil rock does an average of 16 to my lvl 10 character.. hmmm...

Edit: ok, same minotaurs, lvl 20 ele that was played "proper" wearing 60AL armor.. seems to average out at 12 damamge a hit. My lvl 10 mesmer OTOH was wearing the 60 + 10 vs physical rouge set..

I think there may be *some* grounds to it.

Sagius Truthbarron · Aug 13, 2005, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Err, there are no stone summit in ascalon areana, so how would a stone summit hitting you and doing 50 damage tell us that the armor wasn't affective in the areana anymore? o.o

Old Dood · Aug 13, 2005, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

Err, there are no stone summit in ascalon areana, so how would a stone summit hitting you and doing 50 damage tell us that the armor wasn't affective in the areana anymore? o.o

That is Exactly what I was thinking.

generik · Aug 13, 2005, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Nono..

I was wondering if they programmed in code that causes higher AL armor to only give its wearing more of its full benefit as he/she levels up.

Sagius Truthbarron · Aug 13, 2005, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Nono..

I was wondering if they programmed in code that causes higher AL armor to only give its wearing more of its full benefit as he/she levels up.

You titled your thread wrong, then

Speedy · Aug 13, 2005, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Well.. your character is level 10 and a Stone Summit Gnasher is level 24, which is why you would be experiencing more damage.

Tigris Of Gaul · Aug 13, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

there's no way to tell because you didn't tell us what level the stone summit that were doing that damage were. if you knew the guidl wars damage equation, you'd know that level has a huge factor in how much damage you receive.

Say what?

Vorlin · Aug 13, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Exactly what Wheel said. Take a level 20 back to a beginning level zone and use a spell or weapon attack against a level 5 or so creature and look at the huge damage you do, it will be like several hundred percent higher than you'd expect from the damage rating of the spell/weapon.

Tigris Of Gaul · Aug 13, 2005, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

Exactly what Wheel said. Take a level 20 back to a beginning level zone and use a spell or weapon attack against a level 5 or so creature and look at the huge damage you do, it will be like several hundred percent higher than you'd expect from the damage rating of the spell/weapon.

lvl 20 War using an Ithas bow against Hulking Stone Elemental = 2-6 damage
lvl 13 Ele using an Ithas bow against Hulking Stone Elemental = 3-6 damage

Bingley Joe · Aug 13, 2005, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigris Of Gaul

lvl 20 War using an Ithas bow against Hulking Stone Elemental = 2-6 damage
lvl 13 Ele using an Ithas bow against Hulking Stone Elemental = 3-6 damage

Why not try it with a R/ that has the proper requirements in Marksmanship?

wolfy3455 · Aug 13, 2005, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigris Of Gaul

lvl 20 War using an Ithas bow against Hulking Stone Elemental = 2-6 damage
lvl 13 Ele using an Ithas bow against Hulking Stone Elemental = 3-6 damage

Theres a big difference in damage btween wands/spells and physical weapons. Physical weapons are based on the attribute. Spells/wands are based on your level. That's once you have the necessary attribute of course.

Vorlin · Aug 13, 2005, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Level 20 E/M, using fire wand of 11-22 damage, did 29-62 damage against a level 4 whiptail (29 once (+164% of minimum listed damage), 62 6 times (+182% of maximum listed damage).

Using Flare, listed damage of 40, did 80 against a level 4 whiptail (+100% damage), 63-66 against a level 4 grawl (+65% damage), 92 against a level 3 ulodyte (+130% damage), 80-84 against a level 6 boss (Mok, +110% damage)). Using Fireball, listed damage of 91, did 143 against a level 4 grawl (+57% listed damage), 209 against a level 3 ulodyte (+130% listed damage).

So, like most things to do with GWars, the damage algorithm is complete nonsense, you'll never know what the hell you'll get until you see it in practice against a specific monster when you are a specific level.

Nice game, but coded by the Forest Gumps of the game industry.

Tigris Of Gaul · Aug 13, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

Level 20 E/M, using fire wand of 11-22 damage, did 29-62 damage against a level 4 whiptail (29 once (+164% of minimum listed damage), 62 6 times (+182% of maximum listed damage).

Using Flare, listed damage of 40, did 80 against a level 4 whiptail (+100% damage), 63-66 against a level 4 grawl (+65% damage), 92 against a level 3 ulodyte (+130% damage), 80-84 against a level 6 boss (Mok, +110% damage)). Using Fireball, listed damage of 91, did 143 against a level 4 grawl (+57% listed damage), 209 against a level 3 ulodyte (+130% listed damage).

So, like most things to do with GWars, the damage algorithm is complete nonsense, you'll never know what the hell you'll get until you see it in practice against a specific monster when you are a specific level. I understand wands are based on level, but its not in relationship to target level.

Nice game, but coded by the Forest Gumps of the game industry.

Maybe because their armor is so low?
Every 40 armor below 60 is double damage. So if they have 5-20 armor, you're going to notice big results right?

And why would I use Marksmanship if I wanted to see what a starter weapon did?

Vorlin · Aug 13, 2005, 10:08 PM // 22:08

How did their armor get lower as my level got higher? Does my fireball now sneak past their armor? Did I learn to aim it through cracks in their armor? It's nonsense. It's just an arbitrary bit of code with no justification. Why does the fire from my wand to +182% damage against a whiptail and the fire from my flair do +100%? How does one get better at a better rate than the other, and if one did, wouldn't it be the flare spell instead of an inanimate object?

It's like having a 44 magnum handgun jumping in damage 182% after practicing with it. It doesn't. And you can't argue that it's 'improved aim', if so then at least some of my shots at level 5 would do +182% damage (a good hit), but they never do. Using that argument it would be like going from -always- winging them on the arm to -always- hitting them in the heart.

As I said, it's just a nonsense algorithm. Like belt pouches that can hold bows, or bows that don't need arrows, or any of the dozens of other things about GWars that make no sense.

Loviatar · Aug 13, 2005, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

How did their armor get lower as my level got higher? .

it didnt get lower in absolute terms as it stayed at the minimum al

you on the other hand gained 16 levels above them

somewhere is a complete damage guide showing exactly how the damage breaks down among several factors including RELATIVE level of the 2 parties

riflex · Aug 13, 2005, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Every person on this forum past 3rd grade should read this: "A Treatise on Combat Mathematics" instead of pouring crap over developers.

Say you have a lvl 20 E/Mo and your flare is said to be doing 40 damage a hit in its description. Say a lvl 4 grawl has 20 armor. So here we go: 40*2^((3*20-20)/40) = 80 damage a hit.

If you're smart enough you can figure out that at level 20 an elementalist would be doing exactly the amount of listed damage to ANY creature that has 60 armor. 60 armor is considered "normal" in GW. Anything that has less than 60 armor will take more than listed damage, anything that has more than 60 - less damage. So a ranger wearing studded leather armor from forge would take: 40*2^((3*20-(70+30))/40) = 20 damage a hit.

Similarly, if a level 30 monster casts flare (at the same attribute level) against our poor ele wearing airomancer's forge armor, the ele will take 40*2^((3*30-60)/40) = 67 damage a hit.

Read the article to find out how weapon (not skill) damage is calculated. Although I have to say that if you're attacking enemies that are much lower level than you, expect to do some 150% of the maximum of the listed weapon's damage pretty much all the time.

Ensign · Aug 13, 2005, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

How did their armor get lower as my level got higher?

It doesn't. You deal more damage across the board as your level gets higher. This is a pretty universal concept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

Why does the fire from my wand to +182% damage against a whiptail and the fire from my flair do +100%?

It doesn't, both are dealing double listed damage because of your level and their relative weakness. Maximum damage from your wand is actually a critical hit that deals 1.41x as much damage, and since you're dealing double damage, that means 282% damage, or the +182% damage you saw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

How does one get better at a better rate than the other

It didn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

As I said, it's just a nonsense algorithm.

That you don't understand something doesn't make it nonsense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by riflex

If you're smart enough you can figure out that at level 20 an elementalist would be doing exactly the amount of listed damage to ANY creature that has 60 armor. 60 armor is considered "normal" in GW.

It's actually a bit more simple than that. "Normal" armor in Guild Wars is 3*clvl. That means that any character using spells on a target of the same level as him with normal armor will deal exactly the amount of listed damage. In effect the whole system scales up, and the damage listed in the skill descriptions is maximally useful at every stage along the way. Damage against 60 AL is not particuarly useful to a level 5 character. Damage vs no armor makes comparisons difficult between normal and armor ignoring effects. Damage against targets of the same level really is what you want, and while it gives some odd effects (like the 40 damage Flare dealing 80 damage to a weak creature) it's ultimately the mechanic with the best utility for the casual player.

Peace,
-CxE

SOT · Aug 13, 2005, 11:45 PM // 23:45

To everything...turn,turn,turn..There is a season...turn,turn,titn...

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